Created Date: November 05,2017

Created by: jorgenbg

Hi

A few years ago I decided to buy a farm, and I´m now all into areable farming. I went to university studying mathematics and computer programming, but that´s more than 10 years ago now. I´ve been doing electrical work the past 15 years.

My farm need a complete new grain handling system. I got a few quotes from different suppliers and the automation part is very pricey. I like a challenge, so I thought why not do it yourself? Then you are in full control if you would like something added in the future or something changed. I like to be free!

Could anyone help me in the right direction here? What to buy? Any recommended literature I should read?

Not to grasp over too much, I think the first project would be something like this:

1. When wet bin is empty, start filling until it´s full. Leg - 3 phase 230VAC 7 hp motor. (I manually monitor the wet holding).

2. When dry bin is full, move grain to storage bin. Other Leg + conveyor. If conveyor stops, leg must stop. (I manually monitor the storage bin)

Price on equipment is not the most important here, but something reliable and flexible with respect to future additions.

What would you recommend to buy to start such a project?

Thanks for any help. I´ve never done any automation before.

Regards

Jorgen

Created Date: November 05,2017

Created by: RogerR

Just starting out on PLC programming, the Click or the P1000 would control this application easily and are both pretty easy to learn as a first PLC programming language.

If you are controlling only only one bin per PLC, then the Click would be a bit cheaper.

If the Humidity sensors are analog, the Click has built in Analog IO for some models and saves an additional analog module.

The three phase motors could be controlled with motor starters and aux contacts to monitor if they are running or with VFD Drives.

Created Date: November 05,2017

Created by: Ridgeline Mach

For bin filling, I'd go with a PLC that can do PID. There's an excellent video showing how to fill a tank, using a Productivity 3000 PLC (AKA, the P3K) and PID. Since the new Productivity 1000 (P1K) uses the same programming software, and has the same instruction set, you could use the P1K, and have a solution that is scalable. So, if your needs increase and need a PLC that is bigger, you could go with a Productivity 2000 (P2K), or P3K, and not have to rewrite any of the programming code you invested time and effort creating.

Created Date: November 06,2017

Created by: johnaden

I 've done some grain handling systems for Dumpits, fill augers, legs, and dryer interface, using mostly Automation Direct products. The bin sensors are not analog, just level switches.. I used a Click with analog to monitor amps on the Leg. We also put a flag and proximity sensor on the legs and drag conveyors to verify motion. Shutdowns occur if a belt breaks, etc. I used a C-more Micro for the user to enter trip settings, timer values, etc., and to display error messages.

Do you presently have motor starters on the augers? For most operations I gave the user Manual-Off-Auto switches.

Created Date: November 07,2017

Created by: jorgenbg

I 've done some grain handling systems for Dumpits, fill augers, legs, and dryer interface, using mostly Automation Direct products. The bin sensors are not analog, just level switches.. I used a Click with analog to monitor amps on the Leg. We also put a flag and proximity sensor on the legs and drag conveyors to verify motion. Shutdowns occur if a belt breaks, etc. I used a C-more Micro for the user to enter trip settings, timer values, etc., and to display error messages.

Do you presently have motor starters on the augers? For most operations I gave the user Manual-Off-Auto switches.

Hi

Thank everyone for good advice. The system will be something like you describe with dump pit, legs and conveyors. As you say som kind of detector to identify motion is critical in case the belt breaks.

I will need to start soon and I´m sure going to be back with loads of questions.

Regards

Jørgen

Created Date: November 07,2017

Created by: jwbaker3

We have installed systems from simple to completely automated. We have systems that the driver opens the gate on the truck and the system starts stores, fills the dryer if needed, changes bins as needed, changes the speed of the spreader in the bin to keep the grain flat for better drying, controls the bin fans and will call and e-mail any alarms as they happen. The Farmer can check on the system from the combine with the I Pad. I would use the Do More processor on the 205 base with a C-more EA9 (for remote access) The Do More/205 will allow for expansion and is very easy to program. The PID control is one of the best on the market. The productivity series will work also but I would not use a click unless you were never going to network or expand the system. The advantage of networking the system is if you hook to the internet you can control the system over the internet with the C-More.

JW

Created Date: November 08,2017

Created by: pbw

We have installed systems from simple to completely automated. We have systems that the driver opens the gate on the truck and the system starts stores, fills the dryer if needed, changes bins as needed, changes the speed of the spreader in the bin to keep the grain flat for better drying, controls the bin fans and will call and e-mail any alarms as they happen. The Farmer can check on the system from the combine with the I Pad. I would use the Do More processor on the 205 base with a C-more EA9 (for remote access) The Do More/205 will allow for expansion and is very easy to program. The PID control is one of the best on the market. The productivity series will work also but I would not use a click unless you were never going to network or expand the system. The advantage of networking the system is if you hook to the internet you can control the system over the internet with the C-More.

JW

Just curious, Did you incorporate moisture/temp cables in the bin to monitor grain temp and moisture?

Created Date: November 08,2017

Created by: Tom@Pton

We have used CLICKs on the last systems. Similar to Aden’s above. Take notes and write comments in your program. PIA big time when trucks are lined up and you don’t remember how you got from point A to C. Power factor monitoring is even better than current.

Spend the time and money on a better HMI. The Micro will work, but go for the EA9. The HMI will probably take more of your time to understand than the PLC logic and if you are going that far, put a screen in the office as well.

Created Date: November 09,2017

Created by: jwbaker3

We do put temperature cables in the bins if the customer request it. We build our own multiplexer for the cables we can sample up to 256 points per unit. We read the multiplexer with a DL06 with thermocouple cards. We transfer the information to the control system and the HMI by Ethernet cable or 802.11 radio to an AP to the main PLC network. We do not do moisture cables as far as I know there are only 2 companies that build them and I understand there was legal action in the past (we don't have the money to pay lawyers) so we stay away from them. We install a weather station on the bin site and humidity sensors below the bin floor and at the roof vents. From the temperature and humidity and information from the weather station we can estimate the moisture to control the bin fans and burners for final drying and grain quality control during storage. If we are controlling the grain dryer we use Dryer Master moisture system, we have used many different sensors in the past with some success but the dryer master system has worked very well and we can do what we do best, custom automation and control. As far as using clicks, they are fine PLC's for some applications but if you ever want to expand the system (more bins, another dump pit, etc.) I think the 205/Do More is the better choice from our experience, but it comes down to what you are comfortable using and will do the job. We have a standard for the hardware platform that we use in most cases on a greenfield projects, it makes the development time less and is easier to support after the system is running. Most of the projects we do we put a VPN in place so we can troubleshoot the system from anywere without the travel time, during harvest this is a huge time and money saver for our customers.

JW