adccommunitymod (AutomationDirect) asked a question.
Created Date: January 25,2011
Created By: dieseltwitch
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I wasn't sure where to put this topic, it might have fit in the AC drive section but oh well. Im looking for a way to control single phase fractional AC motor drive pumps. In looking though the forum I found this topic: Single phase 120VAC speed control in that post Phase angle fired SCRs where suggested as a way to control a router motor. however when i went searching for them they all say they are for restive not inductive loads? Basically I'm not looking for anything to complex just something I can feed a 0-10VDC signal to and have to slow the motor. I had found these thanks to bcarlton ( here ) but I'm not sure if this is what I need? Im only looking to control 1/12 and 1/6 HP motors. so i don't need a huge over sized device. Thanks for the help
Created Date: February 04,2011
Created by: ZFSENG
I know of a company that makes single phase 120 volt drives called Invertek. I believe the drive is a Optidrive E2.
Created Date: February 04,2011
Created by: KPrice
dieseltwitch, what type of motor do you have?
You cannot control speed if you have any type that switches the starting winding, such as:
- (switched) split-phase
- capacitor-start
- two-capacitor (capacitor-start/capacitor-run)
if you attempt to slow down the motor, the centrifugal switch will close, and energize the start winding. The start winding (very fine wire) will burn-out very quickly if left energized.
you can control speed if you have
- permanent-split phase
- shaded-pole
Created Date: February 08,2011
Created by: Bob S BN
If you haven't bought the motors yet, Bodine, Bison Gear and probably others make 240 3 phase fractional horsepower induction motors.
You can buy VFDs that take a 120 single phase input and generate a 240 volt 3 phase output for the motors.
Just a thought,
Created Date: February 08,2011
Created by: KPrice
dieseltwitch, I agree with Bob S BN line of thinking - if possible, replace 1-phase motor with motor more suitable for speed control. In addition to the 3-phase, check out small DC motors with DC drives. Grainger sells a number of small DC motors.
Created Date: September 28,2011
Created by: dieseltwitch
dieseltwitch, what type of motor do you have?
You cannot control speed if you have any type that switches the starting winding, such as:
- (switched) split-phase
- capacitor-start
- two-capacitor (capacitor-start/capacitor-run)
if you attempt to slow down the motor, the centrifugal switch will close, and energize the start winding. The start winding (very fine wire) will burn-out very quickly if left energized.
you can control speed if you have
- permanent-split phase
- shaded-pole
Hey guys, sorry to drumb up an old topic but I'm having problems trying to figure this out. What I'm running are standard hydronic circulators, they are cap starts but there is no centrifugal switch.... I know speed control can be done as many of the products I compete with are now including PWM as a way to control pump speed. Any ideas? I was even thinking of using the phase angle SCR's and a 0-10 output. If it was up to me I would just run a 3p pump and a VFD but i need a mid price range option.
Created Date: September 29,2011
Created by: milldrone
dieseltwitch,
There is a guy over at PLCs.net that claims to have done this. I cannot say one way or another if it will work. I do however understand the concept. I should warn you that this was one of his last posts and it was in 2007.
http://www.plctalk.net/qanda/showpost.php?p=200316&postcount=36
Created Date: September 29,2011
Created by: Tinker
What I'm running are standard hydronic circulators, they are cap starts but there is no centrifugal switch....
Sounds like a permanent split capacitor motor. Wikipedia says: "PSC motors are frequently used in air handlers, blowers, and fans (including ceiling fans) and other cases where a variable speed is desired. "
http://controlres.com/nimbus.php makes a speed control for the HVAC industry that looks promising. They don't have prices on their web site, but here is one palce that does: http://www.pchydro.com/atmosphere-timers-controllers-c-72_64/nimbus-smartfan-motor-control-p-3541 those pot heads are getting sophisticated these days:) at $86 it costs more than some of the smaller circulator pumps, but if it does what you want...
Created Date: September 29,2011
Created by: dieseltwitch
Awesome!
I was spending some more time looking over my competitions controllers. Its looks like they just use Solid state relays and pules the output. is there any reason I could not do the same? Im already using the D0-06DD1 in every one of my controls.
The AD-SSR210-DC has a response time for 10ms,
I'm half temped to just buy the stuff and try it
Created Date: September 29,2011
Created by: Tinker
I'm half temped to just buy the stuff and try it
That's what I would do, at least if it was a personal project, if it is something you are going to sell, even if it seems to work initially, you probably should test it for an extended period of time to learn if there are any long term adverse effects on the motors. Or the SSRs, some are not too happy with inductive loads, though some are ok, possibly with some derating
Created Date: October 01,2011
Created by: dieseltwitch
That's what I would do, at least if it was a personal project, if it is something you are going to sell, even if it seems to work initially, you probably should test it for an extended period of time to learn if there are any long term adverse effects on the motors. Or the SSRs, some are not too happy with inductive loads, though some are ok, possibly with some derating
How do you find out if the relay will handle induction loads? I'm already going to be running the relay at no more then 1/10th of the 10 amp rating. do you think that AD's SSR can take pulsing of up to 30 Pules per second?