Created Date: February 27,2015

Created by: kewakl

Can I use an HMI to simplify my setup.

Yes

Is that what HMI's are good for?

They excel at operator input and displaying, not the counting

Do they have I/O on the HMI device to tell the PLC what to do?

I am unaware of AD HMIs with I/O -- my AD HMI experience is cmore only

I do not need an elaborate HMI, just something simple to replace the counters.

A cmore Micro might be the simplest for the click, but think about future needs.

I am using a click PLC and 4 Red Lion counter. Each Red Lion counter does a specific task at counting. Each time the counter reaches a preset count it tells the Click PLC that an operation is complete and the PLC preforms a set task of on or off function. I would like to replace the Red Lion counters with 1 HMI to simplify my control board setup. This is because each time we run a different product, which may be several times a day, we have to change the individual count presets.

Thanks

The counting could be assumed by the click. The counter setpoints could be operator input at the hmi.

The click would count to setpoint, do the accessory function, and wait -- or have another go at the next batch -- your choice.

Each product could be setup as a recipe, and when you do a changeover, all you would need to do is select *that* recipe.

The counters would all change to reflect the new recipe. Depending on the size of the screen, you could have all counter setpoints AND accumulators on the screen at one time. You could even change colors of a field based on count complete/current count on goal/not on goal....(Takt Time)

Created Date: February 27,2015

Created by: kewakl

Some HMIs have I/O.

As I mentioned earlier, that I am unaware of any AD HMI with I/O.

I have used other brand HMI with I/O built in, but :

1. you already have a process implemented in a click,

2. this is an AD forum,

that is all I have to say about that here.

Created Date: February 27,2015

Created by: BobS

HMI replacement

Kewaki,

When you say:

"Each product could be setup as a recipe, and when you do a changeover, all you would need to do is select *that* recipe. "

Do you mean that the HMI will load the new values into the Click without reprograming it?

I know what "recipes " are but when I write a new ladder program to change count parameters I have to stop the PLC, load the parameters and the run the PLC.

So I am a little confused on how to change the counts without this step.

Many thanks from someone that is new to HMI.

Created Date: February 27,2015

Created by: kewakl

When you say:

"Each product could be setup as a recipe, and when you do a changeover, all you would need to do is select *that* recipe. "

Do you mean that the HMI will load the new values into the Click without reprograming it?

That is up to you and the HMI that you choose. I am not intimately familiar with the CMore micro, so I cannot say how it may work with recipes.

On a cmore(EA7 or EA9) , you can have recipes, but I prefer to have the PLC contain the recipes, so...

In the click, you set aside some data memory (DS, DD, DH, DF) depending the datatype your project requires. Each recipe would occupy a portion of the reserved data memory.

The click is not capable of arrays, but the can be emulated. I have a post here about that if you are interested.

(I am working on some click code to do this example - in another post)

Say you have 10 products. Your process has 4 counters.

Set up 40 locations for these. I'll use DS1001 - DS1041 for storage.

I'll use DS 1051 thru 1054 for current recipe setpoints and HMI display.

I'll use DS 1050 for current recipe selection.

In the hmi, you have a recipe selection entry(DS1050). It will allow you to pick a number from 1 to 10 (recipe.)

When you have a selection validated (however you choose to validate) you do the math to

pick that group of values and copy that 4 value range from the DS1001-DS1041 to DS1051 to 1054.

(only copying the four values that are the current recipe setpoints...)

The HMI would use DS1050 for the entry and indication of current recipe

and would use DS1051 - 1054 for the 4 counter setpoints associated with that recipe.

I know what "recipes " are but when I write a new ladder program to change count parameters I have to stop the PLC,

load the parameters and the run the PLC.

So I am a little confused on how to change the counts without this step.

Many thanks from someone that is new to HMI.

Why do you STOP the PLC to change setpoints?

You can use DS memory and change the values in a dataview.

But if you 're going HMI, you can skip that.

-I'll post this and continue in the next post. - I may edit this post, too, so check for edits.

EDIT : Can you post a copy of your program? We like to see how others do things. We may offer advice or the wisdom our experience.

Created Date: February 28,2015

Created by: kewakl

NOTE: This is NOT a full program to do what you wish your project to do.

This program only uses ONE slightly misunderstood concept of the click cpu (Pointer Addressing in single copy mode)

It is only intended to depict ONE method among many of using recipes in a click cpu.

This project only contains 1 rung. It is NOT documented fully.

This run has a conditional section and 9 parallel output instructions.

This post provides a bit of description for each step in this rung.

Conditionals: by element

DS1049 NEQ DS1050 compares the current and last recipe selections to determine a selection change

DS1050 GRT 0 ensure you cannot choose a recipe lower than 0

DS1050 GEQ 10 ensure you cannot choose a recipe greater than 10

Output:

MATH ((DS1050 - 1) * 4 ) + 1001 -> DS1048

Calculate a pointer to the first element in the NEWLY selected recipe

DS1050 is the newly selected recipe number value

subtract 1 from it and multiply by 4 to get the selected repice's base

We have 4 elements per recipe entry, so that is the multiply by 4

then add 1001 to the mix to locate the START of the whole recipe group (DS1001.)

OUTPUT that value to DS1048 so we can use that value as the INDIRECT address into the recipe group

COPY DS DS1051

(NOW, I 've done it. I hope that this doesn't confuse you - we'll explain it)

Copy Single Mode supports pointers , the square brackets. The pointer can ONLY be DS datatypes.

This instruction uses the results of the previous math instruction to locate the first setpoint in your recipe. it copies that value to DS1051.

Think of the value inside the square brackets as if the CPU can peek at the value of a DS memory location

and use that value as the address of another 'd '-type memory location.

If DS1048 equals 15, then DS would also be DS .

Now the next three output pairs are similar - you have copied your selected recipe values to your CURRENT RECIPE value memory locations so that your HMI can use a single memory location per count setpoint.

Your program can also use a single memory location per count setpoint.

---You might have guessed it: you can also do a similar routine to UPDATE these setpoints from the HMI.

This capability has not been implemented in this program.

COPY DS1050 DS1049

Remember that we changed recipes and disallow this routine from rerunning until a valid recipe change happens. (see the first conditional instruction DS1049 NEQ DS1050)

Created Date: February 28,2015

Created by: kewakl

Note: you can have MORE than 4 entries per recipe and you can have more than 10 recipes, you just have to plan for the future WHEN you are making your DS datatable layout.

In the calculations, you can use data (DS) registers for all important values:

Where I have used:

4 use a register to indicate how many entries per recipe

1001 use a register to indicate origin of your group of recipes

10 use a register to indicate total recipe count

I may be unclear or have made typos, if you don't understand, just ask.

Created Date: February 28,2015

Created by: BobS

lot to learn

I have a lot to learn. What you are saying does makes sense. I will be reading on what the HMI can do for me in the next few days. I just need to look at this different than with just the click.

I have a very simple program that I can post later but I am home for the weekend. The HMI would really simplify things.

Thanks a bunch