adccommunitymod (AutomationDirect) asked a question.

Edited September 16, 2020 at 10:43 PM
Global Search and Replace

Created Date: November 05,2013

Created By: gpease3

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Anyone here know of any quick tips to doing a global search and replace on tags when making duplicate screens in a C-More application. I have a project I am working on where I need 24 control stations with 3 screens each and I feel there is a way to quickly replace the tags as I copy the screens and make duplicates. Any help or tips would be appreciated. George Show-Me Machine Works

  • 11 answers
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  • Seth Kahle (Customer)

    @Durallymax (Customer)​ Thank you very much for the detailed workarounds. I think my approach is going to be to completely abandon ship, and go with an OPC based solution using Kepwares KEPserverEX with Productivity driver. I don't want to be spending tons of man hours working around the shortcomings of a mediocre platform. I find the Productivity platform to be pretty capable, but if you really utilize the full capacity of thousands of I/O, UDS, etc, etc, there is no way C-more is an equally capable solution. Generally speaking, there is a lack of products out there with Productivity drivers, so I do feel like I am pigeon-holed into a really tough spot. The Kepware solution opens the doors to pretty much any HMI platform, so I am just going to have to throw money at this problem.

     

     

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  • adccommunitymod (AutomationDirect)

    Created Date: November 05,2013

    Created by: gpease3

    Anyone here know of any quick tips to doing a global search and replace on tags when making duplicate screens in a C-More application. I have a project I am working on where I need 24 control stations with 3 screens each and I feel there is a way to quickly replace the tags as I copy the screens and make duplicates. Any help or tips would be appreciated.

    George

    Show-Me Machine Works

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  • Seth Kahle (Customer)

    Maybe I am missing something, but how is in now nearly 10 years later, in Version 6.7x of C-more Programming Software, and there is still no Search/Replace function in this software? I can't think of a more fundamentally necessary feature of any software development program.

     

    I spent countless hours structuring my PLC tags in to UDS (Productivity Suite) specifically so that I could easily reproduce screens in C-more simply by replacing the root Tag Name. Today I found out I have to update a few thousand references BY HAND. 😡

     

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    • Todd Dice (Customer)

      I believe if you export the tag database to an Excel spreadsheet, it can be done in Excel. I've never done it with a Cmore doc, but plenty of times with the DB in Click.

      • Seth Kahle (Customer)

        I have seen this approach recommended on plc.com, but I don't think it helps me. The C-more tag DB export is simply the Productivity Tag Database in a different format. I would need a database/list of C-more references (what screen they are on, what group they are in, and what tag is referenced.)

         

        My issue is that I need to create reusability within the same PLC (for graphics like Analog Transmitter, Digital Output, GS20X Drives) and then also duplicate all of the code for one PLC across 20 others, but change the suffix that is added on Tag Import.

         

        What I mean is that I have created a Task for "Analog Input" and then a structure that contains all of the variables in that task. So to program / configure an AI, all I need to do is create an instance of my UDS, create an instance from my Task Library, and replace the tag name on creation, and set some initial values in the Tag Database. (See attached)

         

        I have 10 or so different structures like this supporting about 2,000 I/O across 20 PLCs. I can't be creating a new library object, project, exporting, renaming, importing, force update every time I want to create an AI graphic element. The whole point of having UDS capability in Productivity is to stay very standardized with variable naming so that you can quickly reuse code. Then C-more comes along and surprises me.

         

        Example AI StructureI am now faced with two options: muscle my way through this and burn through my project budget spending time doing trivial data reference updates, or pivot and spend a lot more money on a more capable platform. I guess you get what you pay for, but for $1,800 for the panel, $2,000 for the SS enclosure I put it in, and >$80,000 in Productivity PLC & other components.... I'd think the only HMI AD offers, that has been on the market for +10 years, would support "Find and Replace."

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      • RBPLC (Customer)

        We were complaining earlier in the week that the C-More HMI is no longer the "value" that it used to be. The 30%+ price increases since Covid no longer make this an attractive HMI when there are other HMIs at the same price point that offer significantly better performance and options. There haven't been significant productivity upgrades to this in years. There's no other indication than this is a "dead" line with nothing other than maintenance releases to be expected in the future. As I said earlier, I would look to other options for future builds. I hope AD is taking this seriously and pushes to have productivity upgrades implemented by Koyo.

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      • Seth Kahle (Customer)

        Sadly, this is kind of a deal breaker for using Productivity PLCs in the future. This suite is pretty nice and getting more mature, but what good is all that ability without an easy way to tie it to an HMI? Kepware’s KEPserverEX OPC server with Automation Direct driver suite seems to be the only practical way to move Productivity data into another platform. Of course MODBUS TCP could be used directly, but that is just as impractical as manually binding all the tags in C-More.

         

        I really hope more HMI manufacturers develop a Productivity driver, or Automation Direct gets the C-more back on track, or licenses a new product. There is just no way I can continue to utilize this platform otherwise.

         

        Looking like it’s going to be Kepware + Inductive Automation Ignition 8. It’ll be 15x the cost, but at least the project will be successful.

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      • Todd Dice (Customer)

        @RBPLC (Customer)​ have you tried the EZ Automation HMIs? I have not, but their editor looks a lot like C-more and they show having Do-More/Productivity/Koyo drivers (reduced learning curve.) I have not tried them and not sure if they have search/replace. I'm just inquiring. I did look into Weintek but it seemed cumbersome programming it to communicate with AD plcs.

      • Seth Kahle (Customer)

        @Todd Dice (Customer)​ I just downloaded the EZAutomation EZTouch Editor Demo, and it would also appear there is no Search and Replace function in this editor. And, although it looks like it can utilize direct access to the Productivity memory locations, but there is now way to point it at a Productivity Project / Tag Database .csv and quickly browse. You would have to take the productivity Tag Database and massage it over to the EZAutomation tag format, and then import the tags. Good to know about, but I don't think this is a silver bullet for me.

         

         

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    • Durallymax (Customer)

      This has been requested multiple times with no progress. Not sure there is a C-More dev team, or possibly they're just holding everything for one big release someday... Find/Replace and trend updates appear to fall on deaf ears. Possible the Host folks just make the C-More folks look bad though, as nearly every request is met with an immediate in-depth response from a dev on if that feature can be implement, when it will be and if not, why not. Maybe Koyo has all it's eggs in the Click basket, they've been stuffing features constantly for the past two years.

       

      I'd rather see an ability to export a screen as XML, worry about a cute GUI find/replace later. A screen in a textual format gives you a lot of freedom and has saved me countless hours in competitors environments.

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    • Durallymax (Customer)

      Since those updates are unlikely to come any time soon and you need to complete you project, there are a couple of workarounds.

       

      One is using a holding register. If you have a UDS for an analog input, create a pop-up for that structure and use another instance of the UDS for it. Use the buttons to trigger that pop-up as the reference for what to copy into that register in the PLC. This almost works like liking a UDT to a Global in RA but in a messier way. You will still need to manually change any elements that need to be displayed simultaneously with other instances of the same UDT (such as a process overview screen).

       

      Another trick is to use an automated mouse/key application to replicate your movements within C-More. Create one screen with all of the "1" elements, then start the recording and create the second screen, make all of your changes in a way that the system can replicate. It should be able to do the next 3-9 this way. It's sometimes more work than it's worth, but can save time.

       

      Also, the tag cross reference is your friend for confirmation after the monotonous task of editing indices of 1000s of tags. If several instances of on UDT will be on one screen, start off making them separate and merge later. Easier to catch errors this way and easier to automate with the mouse/key tool if desired.

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