adccommunitymod (AutomationDirect) asked a question.
Created Date: April 06,2010
Created By: Forrest
**** This post has been imported from our legacy forum. Information in this post may be outdated and links contained in the post may no longer work.****
I am a new PLC user and I am planning to create a control interface on my computer and touch screen monitor so that we can control and log the system process. It's seem that there are 2 softwares, KEPDirect for PLC and Thing & Do. can someone tell me that the major difference between them and suggest the one which is suitable for me? Actually, I tried to read the product description but I still have a lot of questions..... Requirement: Connect DL06 to PC via serial port. Data logging and reporting (export to CSV file) System control and monitoring Thanks a lot
Created Date: April 06,2010
Created by: KPrice
Forrest, here are some thoughts,
KEPDirect is a communications server software that lets the PLC communicate with another software package in the PC. KEPDirect - by itself - will not perform the control logic or HMI. The "third-party " software package would perform the control logic, HMI function, and/or data logging.
Thing & Do is control software - all the control is accomplished in the PC - and no control is accomplished in the PLC. Your "remote I/O " would feed the Thing & Do software in the PC - Thing & Do would read the inputs, perform control logic, and control the outputs.
What device do you want to perform your control function? PLC or PC? (Using the DL06, it appears you want the control in the PLC.)
Another option is LookoutDirect. Have you looked at LookoutDirect? This is a PC-based HMI software package, and includes drivers to communicate with the DL06 (and other PLCs).
Created Date: April 06,2010
Created by: Forrest
Thanks KPrice,
There are some questions below:
1. for KEPDirect, you have mentioned that it need to work with 3rd party software, do you mean VB, VC or other programming tools? If yes, then can I think that KEPDirect is a library control which can be called in programming tools such as VB.
2. Is Thing & Do a software which provides all graphic and control to allow developer to customize an interface which is linked with PLC?
3. I will use my PLC to control system and use PC to monitor the system, log the system activities and provide interface for system parameter settings.
Thanks for your suggestion, I will take a look on LookoutDirect.
Thanks
Forrest, here are some thoughts,
KEPDirect is a communications server software that lets the PLC communicate with another software package in the PC. KEPDirect - by itself - will not perform the control logic or HMI. The "third-party " software package would perform the control logic, HMI function, and/or data logging.
Thing & Do is control software - all the control is accomplished in the PC - and no control is accomplished in the PLC. Your "remote I/O " would feed the Thing & Do software in the PC - Thing & Do would read the inputs, perform control logic, and control the outputs.
What device do you want to perform your control function? PLC or PC? (Using the DL06, it appears you want the control in the PLC.)
Another option is LookoutDirect. Have you looked at LookoutDirect? This is a PC-based HMI software package, and includes drivers to communicate with the DL06 (and other PLCs).
Created Date: April 07,2010
Created by: Forrest
Hello KPrice,
I checked system requirement of LookoutDirect and found that it cannot be run on Vista and Windows 7.
Any other scada solution?
Thanks
Created Date: April 07,2010
Created by: KPrice
Forrest,
yes, LookoutDirect needs XP. I think LookoutDirect is a great product for what you are looking for, and something we also do - use the PLC for control and the PC for SCADA. Unfortunately, LookoutDirect is not updated for the latest Windows OS and the latest Excel spreadsheet (for recipe objects).
LookoutDiect is developed from Lookout from National Instruments (NI). Another sugestion is the Lookout from NI for PC-based SCADA software.
1. Yes, KEPDirect can connect the PLC to VB, VC++ via OPC (or DDE). Also connect to control software like Think & Do and other industry software. Another name big in the industry is Wonderware and their product called InTouch.
2. Yes, Think & Do provides all graphic and control, and you develop custom interface and control. Think & Do is designed to perform the control logic and connect to I/O. It is "high-end " and on the expensive side. I do not believe this is what you are looking for. Think & Do also needs XP, it's not listed to run on Vista or Windows7.
3. I believe LookoutDirect is the best bet for what you are looking at doing. But you must use Windows Vista or Windows7, correct? So LookoutDirect will not work. Perhaps the next best bet is VB if you don't mind doing VB programming. We did a simple SCADA using VB. It was inexpensive and we provided an executable file to the customer, no dongles. But for more than a simple SCADA, it is too much VB programming for me (I'm not a programming guru).
I'll do some more checking.
Hope this helps.
Created Date: April 07,2010
Created by: KPrice
Forrest, the latest Lookout (from NI) version is 6.2. And it also is NOT listed for Windows Vista or Windows7.
Not exactly what you 're asking, but another idea for your PC-based graphical display and HMI:
Install a C-more panel, and connect this C-more to the managers (Windows7) PC.
Use the "Remote Access " feature to allow graphical display and HMI.
Use the C-more file transfer feature allow upload of stored data from C-more USB or Flash memory, or use DataWorx for data collection.
Created Date: April 07,2010
Created by: Forrest
Forrest,
......
3. I believe LookoutDirect is the best bet for what you are looking at doing. But you must use Windows Vista or Windows7, correct? So LookoutDirect will not work. Perhaps the next best bet is VB if you don't mind doing VB programming. We did a simple SCADA using VB. It was inexpensive and we provided an executable file to the customer, no dongles. But for more than a simple SCADA, it is too much VB programming for me (I'm not a programming guru).
Hope this helps.
Hello KPrice, thanks for your information. They are very useful for me and we also think that LookoutDirect is the solution we wanted.
In point 3, you have mentioned about VB and .exe file. Do you mean that we can install LookoutDirect in Windows XP computer with VB programming software and then open VB project, call the controls in LookoutDirect, complie the VB program and then make an executable file. If YES, can this .exe file run in Vista or Windows 7 PCs, do you have any experience and share with us?
Thanks again for your help.
Created Date: April 07,2010
Created by: KPrice
Forrest, I'm glad the info was useful, glad to help.
As far as the VB goes, it was a stand-alone .exe file, nothing to do with LookoutDirect. The VB development software allowed you to create an .exe file. Then the .exe file ran on the user's PC, and communicated with the PLC using the comm server software.
LookoutDirect and Lookout Run-Time package still needs to run on a Windows XP PC (with dongle). When I talked with NI tech support he said "Well, Lookout should run on Windows 32-bit Vista ... but it hasn't been tested. ". I take that to mean it won't work.
Another thought, I did a project with a guy who was an Excel guru. (KepDirect will allow Excel to talk with the PLC.) He did a simple HMI with Excel. It looked pretty good. (Although I believe he took more development time to just add a button, where you can add a button in minutes with LookoutDirect.)
Created Date: April 07,2010
Created by: Forrest
....Perhaps the next best bet is VB if you don't mind doing VB programming. We did a simple SCADA using VB. It was inexpensive and we provided an executable file to the customer, no dongles. But for more than a simple SCADA, it is too much VB programming for me (I'm not a programming guru)......
Hello KPrice,
I have just talked to the sales person from Automation Direct and known that I need to pay addition $1100 for the runtime license for the PC which installs the program. If I have 6 customers and 6 independed systems, then I need to pay addition 6 runtime licenses... it will be too expensive
As you mentioned, you did a simple SCADA using VB. Do you mind to share with me so that I can investigate how much effort I need to pay to develop a SCADA by myself. In addition, where is your ActiveX control for SCADA functions come from? Thanks
Created Date: April 08,2010
Created by: KPrice
Forrest, yes, each customer would need a run-time package with the dongle.
Here is a FAQ about VB and KepDirect:
http://support.automationdirect.com/faq/showfaq.php?id=1211
I used DDE on my VB project with a DL205. Although DDE is easier to setup, DDE is "old school " and being replaced by the more "robust " OPC.
You mentioned both Vista and Windows7. I do not know if KepDirect works with Windows7.
KepDirect is listed for Vista (32-bit) OS. Here is a FAQ on using KepDirect on Vista PC:
http://support.automationdirect.com/faq/showfaq.php?id=1215
Would the C-more option work for you? I know a Windows7 PC can connect to the C-more using the "Remote Access ".
Created Date: April 08,2010
Created by: Forrest
Hello KPrice, thanks for your information, we have the final decision.. use Lookout. There are 2 Lookouts in market, NI Lookout and Lookout Direct. I read the datasheet and know that Lookout Direct support Koyo DL06 but I didn't find any documentation to show that NI Lookout support Koyo DL06. NI Lookout contains the driver for DL205 and DL405. Do you have any experience tried to work DL06 with NI Lookout.
Any idea? Thanks